Latest Acquisition: '77 Pattern Para Smock

I seem to be on a winning streak at present for DPM Para Smocks - I've just won an auction on a '77 Pattern example:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400224966529&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

One interesting feature I note is that it has a loop of DPM cloth stitched on the front over the zip. An improvised rank slide epaulette?

Also, could anyone tell me what the 'dog's head' badge on the left arm is? A quick Google hasn't turned anything up.

Thanks,

Mark

I seem to be on a winning streak at present for DPM Para Smocks - I've just won an auction on a '77 Pattern example:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400224966529&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

One interesting feature I note is that it has a loop of DPM cloth stitched on the front over the zip. An improvised rank slide epaulette?

 

Also, could anyone tell me what the 'dog's head' badge on the left arm is? A quick Google hasn't turned anything up.

 

Thanks,

Mark

I'll see if I can identify that badge, Mark....

I was looking at that smock myself ! A nice example, and don't you just love those old '68 pattern blackened-brass zips on the blue-green base !!! They give the earlier smocks a real "edge" over later items in my humble opinion.....can't have been cheap to manufacture either....the smock itself seems to be in one of the variant '68 pattern cotton-sateen DPM patterns......

Thanks for your comments. I was pleased to get it and I don't think I did badly price-wise compared to this slightly later one that recently went for an eye-watering £122...:shocked:

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200608721070

I can only assume bidders were driven into a frenzy by the early 'dotty' type DPM print. :rolleyes: I agree about the zip - it appears to be identical to the one on my pre-1977 P1968 smock and it definitely adds a certain something.

I've since managed to identify the badge, although more by luck than skill. According to this web page it's a pre-1999 arm patch for the '26 Petroleum Squadron, 12 Supply Regiment, Royal Logistics Corps':

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.comerford/LOGISTICS/PART_3/RLC_Part3.htm

Not the first badge I'd have expected to see on a Para Smock, but interesting none the less. (Assuming it's not a random later addition of course)

Hopefully I'll get the smock next week and hopefully it's as nice as it looks.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400224966529&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

 

Mark - if I am not mistaken that looks like another H E Textiles manufactured smock. They seemed to have had the market on Smocks and windproofs in the late 70's!

Thanks for your comments. I was pleased to get it and I don't think I did badly price-wise compared to this slightly later one that recently went for an eye-watering £122...:shocked:

 

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200608721070

 

I can only assume bidders were driven into a frenzy by the early 'dotty' type DPM print. :rolleyes: I agree about the zip - it appears to be identical to the one on my pre-1977 P1968 smock and it definitely adds a certain something.

 

 

What intrigued me on this smock was that it seems to be a 68 pattern but has the metric 180/104 sizing...must have been right on the cusp of the change over....

Mark - if I am not mistaken that looks like another H E Textiles manufactured smock. They seemed to have had the market on Smocks and windproofs in the late 70's!

That's good to know. I believe they also made P1959 Denison smocks?

What intrigued me on this smock was that it seems to be a 68 pattern but has the metric 180/104 sizing...must have been right on the cusp of the change over....

Is there an official date for the change over to the metric sizing? I've come across references to it being 1982 or 1984.

That's good to know. I believe they also made P1959 Denison smocks?

Yes! Just purchased one off fleabay...

Just a small hunch regarding the small tab sewn on, i always had the little pressel switch for clansman head or throat mike set clipped on to the rank tab on the 95s so i do wonder if some clever bod improvised when this pattern smock was in use.

I could be way out, very nice smock though.

All the best

O.G-Palmer

To my knowledge, the last Denisons were made circa 1978-ish as contracts ran out...........primary Denison manufacturers during the 1960's and 1970's were BMC, James Smith & Co and H E Textiles......though I think Cookson & Clegg may also have had a go...!

"Dotted" DPM does NOT signify an early DPM garment !!!! Some very early DPM '60 pattern stuff misses out the "dots" completely, and I have some early 1980's cotton/modal combat clothing still featuring some very distinctive dots !!! DPM fabric was mainly manufactured by Strines Ltd in Stockport, although mass production saw this farmed out to subsidiary companies, hence the variation in printing rollers, patterns, dye colours, etc. All DPM was supposed to comply with a standard MoD pattern but in reality this didn't actually occur such is the effect of mass production.....

Metric sizing for para smocks was in place by 1982-83 although the garment had commenced production much earlier, during 1977-78 I believe.....

H E Textiles did seem to have a monopoly on specialist DPM clothing production during the late 1970s, including the SAS & arctic smocks & trousers, para & sniper smocks, etc.....plus a few DPM hoods....!

To my delighted surprise it has arrived today, and like OMG! (as I believe young people put it:-D) it's better than the pictures suggested. It is an HE Textiles one and has a Newey zip and snaps. The label style looks early and going by my P1968 smock, I think it's made of Cotton-sateen. I'll try and post some pics later...

To my delighted surprise it has arrived today, and like OMG! (as I believe young people put it:-D) it's better than the pictures suggested. It is an HE Textiles one and has a Newey zip and snaps. The label style looks early and going by my P1968 smock, I think it's made of Cotton-sateen. I'll try and post some pics later...

Clearly 'rocking your world' (again as my daughter seem to say regularly) - make sure you post some pics of the label....

£35+ quid for this is a real deal...:-D

Herewith, some pictures. All comments gratefully accepted.

As well as the chest loop, (which has been well done) there are three strips of white cloth tape stitched to the back of the collar. Presumably an aid to visibility and I wonder if the front loop had a similar purpose?

Another thing I noticed is that the unit badge has been neatly machine stitched on whereas the parachute wings have been rather more crudely hand stitched.

Finally, the cloth seems to be slightly heavier and thicker than the cloth on my '84 pattern Para smock. How do you tell if the material is Cotton-sateen or Cotton-modal?

Thanks,

Mark

Herewith, some pictures. All comments gratefully accepted.

 

As well as the chest loop, (which has been well done) there are three strips of white cloth tape stitched to the back of the collar. Presumably an aid to visibility and I wonder if the front loop had a similar purpose?

 

Another thing I noticed is that the unit badge has been neatly machine stitched on whereas the parachute wings have been rather more crudely hand stitched.

 

Finally, the cloth seems to be slightly heavier and thicker than the cloth on my '84 pattern Para smock. How do you tell if the material is Cotton-sateen or Cotton-modal?

 

Thanks,

Mark

Mark, it is very much a case of trial and experience with DPM garments.........heavyweight pure cotton sateen was officially replaced for new production circa-1977-78 although many manufacturers continued to use up stocks of the older material in some cases right up to 1982-83 (the stuff was made in quantity !!).......always go by the material feel and weight...rather than the actual cammo pattern....

Just wondering: is the Para Smock going to be issued in the new MTP camo?

Just wondering: is the Para Smock going to be issued in the new MTP camo?

I doubt it.....although I bet some fantasy commercial copies will appear in due course !

The DPM para smock was always intended for replacement by CS 95, the smock itself being a temperate combat garment similar to the old infantry smocks....and realistically, was hardly ever used post-95 for its intended purpose other than in training and field exercises.......

As with the old Denison, it appears to have remained in production, on issue and in use until today, no doubt due to grumblings by airborne troops.....

But I reckon Afghanistan and the new range of combat clothing, body armour and load carrying equipment has probably now rendered the DPM para smock as essentially obsolete.......

We could still see the sniper smock in MTP however, plus the (MK2) windproof smock.....

There is due to be a Para smock in MTP, but made of a different material.

There's a whole thread about the new kit on the ARmy Rumour SErvice website:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/military-clothing-boots/157565-personal-clothing-system-replacement-cs95.html

There is due to be a Para smock in MTP, but made of a different material.

There's a whole thread about the new kit on the ARmy Rumour SErvice website:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/military-clothing-boots/157565-personal-clothing-system-replacement-cs95.html

It's difficult to see the purpose of the para smock in recent years........and with most modern combat clothing being worn over "UBACS" undergarments and covered on top by body armour and modern load carrying systems it really does beg the question "why bother?" with an item of clothing different to the rest and with no real function anymore.....:undecided:

I wonder if we will see the Arctic windproof clothing produced in MTP ? Just about perfect for Norwegian forests.....

Interesting. It sounds like it has almost become a ceremonial garment or a form of insignia like a regimental beret colour, etc. Perhaps the Parachute Regiment doesn't want to lose the last living link to the iconic Denison smock?

Presumably they became a less interesting acquisiton for non-parachute qualified troops when the P1990 and CS95 smocks were intoduced?

Interesting. It sounds like it has almost become a ceremonial garment or a form of insignia like a regimental beret colour, etc. Perhaps the Parachute Regiment doesn't want to lose the last living link to the iconic Denison smock?

 

Presumably they became a less interesting acquisiton for non-parachute qualified troops when the P1990 and CS95 smocks were intoduced?

I think you are absolutely right......the para smocks seems to now be relegated to UK exercises and general guard duties...! Possibly far more are now worn outside the airborne forces than within....:-\

Even the lightweight para helmet appears no longer worn on operations due to the ballistic properties apparently being less than the new GS MK7 (and Mark 6 & 6A) helmets........mind you, even the ballistic para helmet actually dates back to the 1970's with development commencing in the early part of the decade........

And perhaps more poignantly, when was the last mass operational airborne deployment involving UK parachutists...?? Am I thinking Suez...?

Hi,

thought you might like to see an unwashed '1977' smock ......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the most mint I've seen outside the Airborne Forces Museum (back when it was at the Shot around 1986).

 

The material is the same as the 1963 DPM SAS smocks and 1960 pattern DPM smocks. Proper cotton modal.

 

Cheers,

Dave

 

Sorry for the crap photography. Lighting wasn't the best. I'll try to do better ones and replace these when i get a chance.

It has been less than one day but I am really starting to dislike you Dave!!:-D

Great photos though....and as much as it pains me to say....keep em coming.

I also dropped you a private message (look at your notification tab at the top of the screen)....

Really nice smock - they don't make 'em like that anymore ! This one dates from about 1981-2 onwards, identified by the metric sizing......the original '77 issue would have numbered sizing (eg - size 2) from introduction up to around 1981....but apart from this the smock remained basically unaltered.......

Following introduction the DPM para smock was made either in 68 pattern cotton-sateen DPM cloth or 77-78 issue mixed cotton modal fabric......

Dave that is sweet, I have one although its faded to hell, got it for £15 off ebay, it was in a bad state when I got, now its restored to its former glory, have you got a pic of the label? is it HE Textiles?

H E Textiles (of Newcastle) received a massive order for combat clothing during the early 1980's (I have the article somewhere).......evidence suggests that this was for para smocks, SAS & arctic windproof smocks and trousers, and sniper smocks rather than standard 68 pattern clothing.....I have none of the latter in the collection......but several of the former !

H E Textiles (of Newcastle) received a massive order for combat clothing during the early 1980's (I have the article somewhere).......evidence suggests that this was for para smocks, SAS & arctic windproof smocks and trousers, and sniper smocks rather than standard 68 pattern clothing.....I have none of the latter in the collection......but several of the former !

I concur Steve as I have not seen any 68 Patt uniform by HE Textiles although they did produce 68 pattern hoods.

I have a few HE Textiles manufactured pieces, as you say mainly windproofs and para smocks, and they are probably my favourite manufacturer. The quality just seems to be better than most other mnaufacturers of the period. I have a couple of first pattern DPM Para Smocks, one by HE and the other by F Fryer. The quality difference is quite noticeable!